is that a punishment orifice cal policy? >> i don't think it many a punishment. not in and of itself which is why you have to couple that with three times as much spending cuts. these people have had the best of the best for the last 20 years. when there is a tax bill they get favored. it's time for them to give a little back. andrea says all these people will be hurt. they will be hurt because her party is holding on for a bunch of 2%ers who don't need the money. >> i just said if we raise taxes they need to be coupled with billions in spending cuts. that's not what the white house is proposing. they are proposing a second stimulus and more spending. >> this is a negotiation. >> this is a wealth transfer program. >> i don't think anybody in the white house believes they will get away with this proposal they put forward. martha: we'll talk to kevin mark carthy and we'll see what he thinks about which side is ridiculous and which side is asking too much. thanks for coming. bill: four weeks. we all hear the heartbreaking stories of seniors who get taken in by scam